6:15 p.m.
do *not* reply offlist
Am 21.09.2013 20:00, schrieb Richard Allen:
Harald,
>> I know I should not feed the Trolls, but I do feel compelled to
>> answer this oh, so helpful comment from Harald here because Linux
>> is very important to me.
>
> oh, everybody which is not your opinion is a Troll... fine - i can
> live with it
No, it's not the fact that you do not agree with me. It's because this
mailinglist has a specific topic.
than be careful with words like "Troll"
i have developed software where you maybe even was not born
It's purpose has mainly been discussing software from the
rpmfusion repo and getting help with it
but not the merits of opensource, mandatory forced opensource or vendors.
and that does change *what* in the fact that it is plain stupid to
rely on closed source divers, setp to the latest upstream kernel,
wonder hwy the driver doe snot work and ask what to do?
*wait until someone will fix it* is the answer
Twice you have answered simple requests for information with your
apparent nvidia hatred.
Nobody asked what your view was on that subject. First, I asked if anyone else was
seeing
this problem, then George did and asked for help. Your reply added no value at all to the
discussion and was completely off topic.
it was *on topic*
it said simply *wait* ebfore someone is able to fix the closed source BLOB
and until this has happend use the last recent working kernel
I am sure there exist "Lets hate vendor X" forums and
mailing lists out there where your views is more at home.
and they answer the question how to handle "too new kernel for the crap i
bought"?
But perhaps I am to harsh in calling you a troll
yes
Would you be satisfied if I change that to "Not helping at
all" or "Using other people's requests for
help to spew your views on them"?
no - because the only help *this moment* is wait until someone
figured out how running the new kernel-release with the Nvidia
driver and fix the packages for it
But hey :) If somebody posts "Please degrade me for my
choices" on the mailing list,
I will not be in your way because you seem to have that well in hand :)
do what is right in your opinion
it do too
>> First, the Development model of the Linux kernel (and much of
the
>> OSS software projects out there)
>> is called RERO (Release early, release often). The entire point of
>> this model is to speed up the
>> development of the project, the kernel in this case, and striving
>> for higher quality software.
>
> yes and that is why the linux kernel includes drivers too for more
> hardware any other OS supports out of the box
Drivers like the Nouveau driver that support nvidia hardware right out of the box?
as exmaple - used it for two years before banned Nvidia from my machines
>> Read more about it here:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often
>
> tell me something new
I'm glad YOU know it. What about all the other users who read your postings.
they has to realize if in case 3.XX the XX changes closed source drivers
may be broken an dit takes time
> you can be sure that i am one of the heaviest fedora-kernel
testers
> and sometimes report bugs or say "works fine" before the maintainer
> even knows that the koji-build has finished
I'd be interested in knowing how you can test something as huge as an entire kernel
before
the maintainer knows it is built, but lets not go there.
i go there
Sep 14 18:54:56 Installed: kernel-3.11.1-200.fc19.x86_64
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=464548
Sat, 14 Sep 2013 16:43:57 UTC
given that i live in vienna i installed the build 11 minutes after
the compile has finished
and after that i worte a mail to the kernel-list that this
build works on both of my different phyiscal machines as
well as on top of VMware
> but i am samrt enough to buy hardware which is supported
What did the Nouveau driver support again?
>> Instead complain when distro's that call them selves bleeding edge,
>> like Fedora does, do not release new kernels
>> in a timely fasion. Be proud of the fact that you are taking part
>> and helping.
>
> i am - but i do not buy Nvidaia cards
Great. I support your right to choose whatever you want as well.
I hope you are very happy with your choices and that nobody is putting you down for
choosing
what you wanted. I certainly am not attacking you for your hardware choices.
well, the only thing i expressed is: do not jump to the latest kernel-upgrade
until someone fixed the issues in the driver-builds and that may take longer
depending on the sort of changes
> yes, but using Nvidia hardware and jump to the newest
upstearm-kernel
> is not that
> smart to say it polite - change your hardware or your distribution in
> doubt
Why? Choosing nvidia hardware and jumping to the newest kernel is fine if you
are using the Nouveau driver?
yes because it works
Granted, sometimes there are issues using nvidia's BLOB but never
showstoppers.
for the ordinary user it *are* showstoppers until there is a new package
In contrast I've had multiple issues with oh so many other
completely OSS projects.
For example I discovered yesterday that evince (open source PDF viwer) cannot print
PDF's on a printer on fedora 19. Hitting print caused a segv and a crash
I have a kvm guest running Win7 and I had to start it to print out that PDF.
shit happens
Should I change distro's because of this problem?
no, report a bug, that is a software issue
the Nvidia BLOB is a software issue too but in the worst case
it does not run at all and nobody but Nvidia can fix it
Should I attack evince's development model?
Should I attack the authors of evince?
report a bug
Should I report the issue (it had already been done)?
yes
Or should I just ack. the fact that shit happens and look for another
pdf viewer?
temporary yes, that's why more than one exists
Or just wait for a fix to evince?
both
>> Second, you are also completely free to select whatever
hardware
>> you want based on your own criteria
>
> and if you prefer the latest upstream kernel Nvidia does *not* match
> that criteria
> or they are simply wrong in case of technical facts nobody but Nvidia
> can change
Really?
That fix for this issue was not from nvidia.
but someone has to do it and it is usually not the ordinary user
It was not applied to the rpmfusion codebase by nvidia and it was not
built by nvidia.
This got fixed completely without any involvement from them.
luck - but nobody knows that before someone with expiereience in the
package itself takes a look and given that the one maintians the
package is doing it becuase he is using the driver itself you
need to wait and can avoid this by wait some days before hop to the
next upstream kernel
if in case of 3.XX the XX is changing you need most likely a new
driver package and akmods doe snot help at all
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Reindl Harald